A Canadian Soccer Revolution

3kuyt · Message par **3kuyt** » 31 octobre 2007 12:12

Your quoting a forum, thats not a credible source. You said RDS was a poor source, well this has even less credibility.

CrazyKeeper · Message par **CrazyKeeper** » 31 octobre 2007 12:13

Mpenza a écrit :
CrazyKeeper a écrit : Also, Saputo knew all along that Toronto would get a stadium sooner or later, he knew he would have to deal with that.
Yeah, he probably was counting on a stadium being built in Toronto, since it was the plan all along for the U-20 tournament. What he didn't plan on dealing with was a stadium that would suck everything related to the MNT towards T.O.

MNT game played in Canada this year: 1.

U-20 games away from Toronto this year: 5

It's not like we play that often at home and it's not like our MNT would make big money in MTL, or anywhere in Canada for that matter.

CrazyKeeper · Message par **CrazyKeeper** » 31 octobre 2007 12:19

3kuyt a écrit :Your quoting a forum, thats not a credible source. You said RDS was a poor source, well this has even less credibility.

LOL

Bxl Boy took the comments out of a Journal de Montreal article, and you can see from the following discussion that everybody read the same thing about Saputo opinion of the MLS in the Journal.

The source is Journal de Montreal not the forum.

Maybe we could subpoena Bxl Boy and have him telling you what he read on that morning?

3kuyt · Message par **3kuyt** » 31 octobre 2007 12:19

CrazyKeeper a écrit :
Mpenza a écrit :
CrazyKeeper a écrit : Also, Saputo knew all along that Toronto would get a stadium sooner or later, he knew he would have to deal with that.
Yeah, he probably was counting on a stadium being built in Toronto, since it was the plan all along for the U-20 tournament. What he didn't plan on dealing with was a stadium that would suck everything related to the MNT towards T.O.
MNT game played in Canada this year: 1.

U-20 games away from Toronto this year: 5

It's not like we play that often at home and it's not like our MNT would make big money in MTL, or anywhere in Canada for that matter.

Do you have clear facts of the amount of money that a MNT game can generate?

penz · Message par **penz** » 31 octobre 2007 12:24

What's your point?

The thing is Saputo obviously was in talks to get something from the CSA, and that was given to Toronto, which, 2 months earlier (at the time of the said quote) had NOTHING in the plans for soccer in the country, except that so-called USL franchise that was more a joke than anything else. Development of soccer in Canada was going to go through Vancouver and Montreal and in a mater of days, both were written off and all was put on Toronto.

Having a national team play in your city is not about making money. Besides the money made is going to the CSA in this case... I think what was going on was a plan to develop soccer in Canada that was put on hold for some time because of... the CSA.

CrazyKeeper · Message par **CrazyKeeper** » 31 octobre 2007 13:38

Mpenza a écrit :What's your point?

The thing is Saputo obviously was in talks to get something from the CSA, and that was given to Toronto, which, 2 months earlier (at the time of the said quote) had NOTHING in the plans for soccer in the country, except that so-called USL franchise that was more a joke than anything else. Development of soccer in Canada was going to go through Vancouver and Montreal and in a mater of days, both were written off and all was put on Toronto.

Having a national team play in your city is not about making money. Besides the money made is going to the CSA in this case... I think what was going on was a plan to develop soccer in Canada that was put on hold for some time because of... the CSA.

Again, we don't know the details of those talks....were they serious? Was there anything on the table? Promess made? A plan? Involving MTL? and Vancouver? Did the CSA told him they could go Toronto way? only talks?

And I have a problem with your claim that MTL and Vancouver would lead soccer development in Canada. It's not because there's talks between the CSA and Saputo that it means the CSA is ready to give everything to MTL.

My problem with this specific discussion is that your side, just like mine, is pretty much based on speculations. The only thing we have is Saputo expressing is dissapointment at the CSA but as far as I'm concern it could mean a lot of things: the CSA messed up, Saputo messed up and he's trying to put the blame on the other party (not the first time we would see that in business), both were at fault, the CSA didn't like the deal they were proposed by Joey, Joey didn't liked the deal the CSA was proposing to him?

penz · Message par **penz** » 31 octobre 2007 14:18

CrazyKeeper a écrit :And I have a problem with your claim that MTL and Vancouver would lead soccer development in Canada. It's not because there's talks between the CSA and Saputo that it means the CSA is ready to give everything to MTL.

You're a funny guy.

Who said they would give everything to Montreal? Especially when I'm talking about plans for Montreal AND VANCOUVER to lead soccer development in the country (which was the case one way or another since they were the only pro teams in the country, except for the Lynx, and obviously had a plan to aim higher, including MLS in due time). Let's not forget Vancouver also was pissed at the CSA and went public at the same time as Saputo...

3kuyt · Message par **3kuyt** » 31 octobre 2007 14:23

Here is anothe article from TSN

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/news_story/?ID=140890&hubname=

Saputo Inc. announced plans this summer for a stadium that could be expanded to 17,000 seats along with a training centre near downtown.

The $15 million privately financed facility is to be built in 2006 and be ready to serve as a venue for the junior World Cup in 2007.

However, then came an announcement that Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment had struck a deal with the Canadian Soccer Association for a 20,000-seat waterfront stadium in Toronto, mostly funded by governments, that would be home to a new MLS franchise.

The USL clubs are worried the plans would draw away players and sponsors and thwart efforts they have made to develop the sport over years.

Toronto also reached agreement with MLS that it would not put another franchise in Canada until at least 2009.

Saputo said it would be better to wait a few years and have the three Canadian cities enter MLS together.

That demonstrate that Saputo change his stadium plans has a direct consequence of Toronto being awarded an MLS franchise. He also says his interest in joining the MLS.

Furthermore.... Pipe also denied reports that the Toronto stadium would become the exclusive home of the men's national team.

But in this article http://web.mlsnet.com/t280/stadium/

"BMO Field is home to the Canadian National Soccer Team as well as Toronto FC"

Demonstrating the BMO field is indeed the home of the national team, regardless of the previous reports.

3kuyt · Message par **3kuyt** » 31 octobre 2007 14:29

Heres another interesting article on how the CSA and BMO, the TFC's official sponsor, became partners.

http://www2.bmo.com/news/article/0,1083 ... 12,00.html

"The Canadian Soccer Association and BMO Financial Group announced a new partnership today, making BMO the Official Bank of the CSA and a Primary Partner."

Since BMO gained influence in this partnership with the CSA, its quite possible that it may have acquired some leverage that favors the BMO FIELD.

CrazyKeeper · Message par **CrazyKeeper** » 31 octobre 2007 14:30

Mpenza a écrit :
CrazyKeeper a écrit :And I have a problem with your claim that MTL and Vancouver would lead soccer development in Canada. It's not because there's talks between the CSA and Saputo that it means the CSA is ready to give everything to MTL.
You're a funny guy.

Who said they would give everything to Montreal? Especially when I'm talking about plans for Montreal AND VANCOUVER to lead soccer development in the country (which was the case one way or another since they were the only pro teams in the country, except for the Lynx, and obviously had a plan to aim higher, including MLS in due time). Let's not forget Vancouver also was pissed at the CSA and went public at the same time as Saputo...

You can add Kerfoot and Vancouver in my sentence. I thought it was implicit since I use MTL and Van at the beginning of the paragraph.

"including MLS in due time"

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You think Saputo had a plan to join MLS, I believe from his comments before 2007 that he wasn't really interested in joining the league and was only convince this year (I'm basing my opinion on the earlier quote where he acknowledge that he changed his mind about MLS).

Now that our 3 pro clubs are united together to developp the game in this country it will be interesting to see the results.

CrazyKeeper · Message par **CrazyKeeper** » 31 octobre 2007 14:33

3kuyt a écrit :
Toronto also reached agreement with MLS that it would not put another franchise in Canada until at least 2009.

Hey, look at that!

3kuyt · Message par **3kuyt** » 31 octobre 2007 14:38

CrazyKeeper a écrit :
3kuyt a écrit :
Toronto also reached agreement with MLS that it would not put another franchise in Canada until at least 2009.

Hey, look at that!

YES KEEPER YOUR RIGHT

IM ONCE AGAIN WRONG...its pretty clear your more interested in proving me wrong then actually finding the truth in regards to these relations.

penz · Message par **penz** » 31 octobre 2007 14:39

Ok, now you're just being stupid. I'm not pretending anything, i'm just going by what he's been saying : "Saputo said it would be better to wait a few years and have the three Canadian cities enter MLS together." That means joining the MLs in due time, at least in my book.

Besides, the discussion wasn't about the Impact joining the MLS, it was about getting something from the CSA as opposed to being put aside to favor Toronto.

CrazyKeeper · Message par **CrazyKeeper** » 31 octobre 2007 14:50

Mpenza a écrit :Ok, now you're just being stupid. I'm not pretending anything, i'm just going by what he's been saying : "Saputo said it would be better to wait a few years and have the three Canadian cities enter MLS together." That means joining the MLs in due time, at least in my book.

Besides, the discussion wasn't about the Impact joining the MLS, it was about getting something from the CSA as opposed to being put aside to favor Toronto.

Yes, and I'm basing my opinion on Saputo's quotes about him not liking the MLS structure. He was quoted saying a lot of things. Again, we have to agree to disagree on this.

As for your second paragraph, I totally agree that it was frustrating for MTL to be snubbed in favor of Toronto. But we have different views on this as well. I think it was necessary to go the MLS way as fast as possible and I like the fact that our biggest city has a team and a stadium. I just think it's healthier for canadian soccer in the long term. I think that if pro soccer is to work in Canada it has to work in your biggest market. It needed a boost but from now I'm sure Toronto won't need much help.

3kuyt · Message par **3kuyt** » 31 octobre 2007 15:19

It's not because Toronto is the biggest market that he should automatically be granted everything on a silver plater. Montreal and Vancouver worked hard to get where they are today and they've done so without the help of Toronto.

Montreal and Vancouver could have acquired franchises before Toronto and it would not have hindered the future of soccer in this country. The MLS is known to expand in inconventional markets, therefore we did not need a franchise in Toronto, in order to acquire ours.

You say "it was necessary to go the MLS way as fast as possible." Well thats pretty much what Toronto did, it went into the MSL without taking into account Montreal and Vancouver. There are quotes of Saputo saying that he would of like for all 3 cities to enter at the same time, this quote may not be entirely right, but there must be some truth in it. Whats healthier for Canadian soccer, having three franchises in the MLS or having Toronto monopolise the market?

Cashcleaner · Message par **Cashcleaner** » 31 octobre 2007 16:34

Geeze, guys. I'm the Torontonian here. You're all arguing with each other when you should be berating me.

penz · Message par **penz** » 31 octobre 2007 17:25

Cashcleaner a écrit :Geeze, guys. I'm the Torontonian here. You're all arguing with each other when you should be berating me.

You have a forum too, you must have a member who always argues and argues until no one bares to talk to him anymore. Every forum has one of those. Here's it's CrazyKeeper.

CrazyKeeper · Message par **CrazyKeeper** » 31 octobre 2007 17:47

Mpenza a écrit :
Cashcleaner a écrit :Geeze, guys. I'm the Torontonian here. You're all arguing with each other when you should be berating me.
You have a forum too, you must have a member who always argues and argues until no one bares to talk to him anymore. Every forum has one of those. Here's it's CrazyKeeper.

No one talking to me???

lol

It's funny how you guys are defensive, we're discussing, debating but it has to come down to personnal attacks. If I was arguing alone you would've a valid point but I have people with who I argue so I guess they are no better than me by your standards.

Napule · Message par **Napule** » 31 octobre 2007 22:48

CrazyKeeper a écrit :
Mpenza a écrit :
Cashcleaner a écrit :Geeze, guys. I'm the Torontonian here. You're all arguing with each other when you should be berating me.
You have a forum too, you must have a member who always argues and argues until no one bares to talk to him anymore. Every forum has one of those. Here's it's CrazyKeeper.
No one talking to me???

lol

It's funny how you guys are defensive, we're discussing, debating but it has to come down to personnal attacks. If I was arguing alone you would've a valid point but I have people with who I argue so I guess they are no better than me by your standards.

Are u saying yur from toronto?

Cashcleaner · Message par **Cashcleaner** » 01 novembre 2007 0:53

Mpenza a écrit :
You have a forum too, you must have a member who always argues and argues until no one bares to talk to him anymore. Every forum has one of those. Here's it's CrazyKeeper.

^ That is possibly one of the funniest quotes I've read on a soccer forum.

Sabre · Message par **Sabre** » 01 novembre 2007 18:18

Cashcleaner a écrit :
Mpenza a écrit :
You have a forum too, you must have a member who always argues and argues until no one bares to talk to him anymore. Every forum has one of those. Here's it's CrazyKeeper.
^ That is possibly one of the funniest quotes I've read on a soccer forum.

How's it hanging Senor RPB?

Napule · Message par **Napule** » 01 novembre 2007 20:41

TORONTO SUCKS!!!!!!

Vicenç · Message par **Vicenç** » 01 novembre 2007 21:28

Napule, You do this on purpose, don't you?

Sabre · Message par **Sabre** » 02 novembre 2007 17:02

Vicenç a écrit :
Napule, You do this on purpose, don't you?

One hopes so.